LIPAN, IT SO WIERD IN READING SOME OF THIS COMMENTS. THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT ARE AMERICANS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES ARE NATIVE AMIERICANS. THE ONLY PEOPLE HERE IN THIS COUNTRY BEFORE THE WHITE SETTLERS CAME TO AMERICA WERE NATIVE AMERICANS, AND MEXICANS. MEXICANS OWNED ALL THE SOUTHWEST.IM TOLD THE MEXICANS GAVE ALL THEIR LANDS TO THEIR WHITE LOVING FRIENDS.
although i am not hispnic in any way i am very much apart of the hispanic community. my fiance is from honduras and is currently sitting in jail waiting to be tried. i am a manager of a pizza chain here in owasso and the majority of my staff are from mexico. i speak spanish most of the day. not only has HB 1804 caused hostilty towards the hispanic community but also towards those of us who embrace it. i was verbally attacked by a guest here at my store one day because i insisted on speaking my crew's native language. You know, im more likely to get any job or get paid more because i speak spanish. well, tomorrow i find out if he will return back to honduras and if im going to move there myself. wish me luck!
Here here people! You are all just putting extra gas on the fire and making Rep. Randy Terrill, R-Moore look like some kind of savior for the state. It might me safe to say he got some kind of wild hair when he received bad service at some mexican restauant, and swore vengence! I read an article on this H.B. 1804 and my first impressin that Oklahoma is slowly becoming a Nazi state. Now, I know a few of you are going to say "How dare this guy compare this issue to millions of people dying from a mad man (Hitler not Tirrell) and he's crazy way of thinking"! But, doesn't that kind of sound similiar to this. They want you to believe that its for the taxpayers and that illegals are ruining the state. I also read that this H.B. 1804 was written with the help of white supremacist's. Now, I'm not the kind that believe's everything he reads, so I just thought I'd throw that out there for anyone wanting to hear another sideline to this craziness. Of course Rep. Randy Terrill, R-Moore denied this. Plus, he also stand by his new term of "Anchor-Babies". Any man that comes up with a new deragatory term and back it up, must be really proud of the stink he just created. My first impression of this man is he is an opportunist with bigger political ideas and a hidden agenda that is becoming more apparent as this thing burns harder and faster. So this is where we come in, if we can sit here and promote this crazed man's and his cohorts idea into a cluster-f?ck! Where does this leave our state? This issue would be mute if people didn't hire cheap labor and free trade wasn't an issue. It is just another political manifestation that a small minded man is force feeding his lunancy on us to argue with each other and point fingers at one another on who's loves their state or country more. Or I'm a better U.S. citizen than you because I agree with Mr. Politician? Its us as Oklahoman's being played by a poltician. We must ask ourselves, who will gain more from this? The politcians and their backers, or the citizens of the state?
Now dogs & cats & other domestic animals have more rights & laws to protect them than these poeple. And when anti-abortion use religions for their cause, it's okay. But when others do the same for other causes it's wrong. Religious leaders better start preaching against hate, racism. They are many evil thing in this contry-alcohol, smoking, pornography, tatoos, gossip, lies, credit cards over spending, adultery, etc. Shalom.
Has anyone stopped to think about what effect this will have on citizens that are darkerskinned and look as if they were from Mexico? this discrimination will cause problems for all Latinos, myself included. Whats next? Just because someone doesn't LOOK like they were born here, they are going to be denied opportunities that they are entitled to?
Just a note regarding the previous post about this bill affecting someone born in America. If you are born on US soil, you are entitled to US Citizenship. Thus, if a mother comes across the border illegally and her child is born in a US hospital, the child gets to be a Citizen, even though she doesn't. My heart honestly goes out to those who flee to this country from any other to try and make a better life for themselves. I don't believe it should be as difficult or costly for someone to gain legal citizenship here as it currently is. I see it as another barrier to those who can't make ends meet back home as it is. I'll leave you with this one quote that should have settled the matter decades ago. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Any person who uses the word holocaust for a bill that stops illeagal immigration is by far one of the most idiotic morons in the world i have not seen or heard of anyone calling for the extermination of any race and those who use that term should make a public apology to all those who survived that horrific event and their families bottom get leagal or go home and quit bleeding are public assistance programs
A solution to part of the problem might be for the U.S. government to start billing the Mexican Government for the services that their citizens receive here in the states. I believe that if the Mexican government started having to fork over for the cost of healthcare, education, incarceration, and social services received by it's former citizens that are now HERE illegally, the Mexican government might start to take securing the border a little more seriously and start preventing more of it's citizens from crossing over illegally and enjoying the "free-ride" here in America. The American government needs to hit the Mexican government where it hurts. Right in it's pocketbook......
This house bill sounds like ethnic cleansing to me. I thought that those born here are citizens of this country even if their parents are here illegally. It sounds like to me Oklahoma is trying to go against the constitution of the USA. The law makers in OKC need to be worried about the possible terrorist in this state who are in our colleges and learning nuclear science so they can go back to their country and build bombs to attack our country. A few students from Mexico who are getting an education so they can have a better life is just ridiculous.
To refer to this bill as a Holocaust is an insult. We are not gassing anyone, nor are they being held in a concentration camp. You owe an apology to those who were slaugtered and those who have survived.
Please people, educate yourself on matters before you post instead of just listening to what someone else says and then repeating it.
To those who are of the MISTAKEN belief that illegals do not pay taxes, newsflash---THEY DO. I have never gone into a store that did not charge sales tax. Those working under fictious social security numbers DO have taxes taken from their earnings. They do not file tax returns however so they don't receive any refunds.
Yes, there are problems with illegal aliens. Yes, there needs to be reforms. But
It is very sad that someone who comes to this country ILLEGALLY has more rights then the ones who work very hard to get here legally. I see in the editorial here that some of the hispanic community will lose business and such if they have check for citizenshp or proper papers for legal residents that they employ. I hear the words but really the true meaning is I CAN"T hire illegals without getting into trouble and will have to pay a fair wage for others to work there. There is a drain on our resources here in our schools and other areas that the people who pay taxes have to shoulder that huge burden. The spoksman for the National Coalition of Latin Evangelical Clergy and Christiam Leaders is trying to hide behind religion and not the law. IF he feels that there is ethnic cleansing going on then he needs to look at himself. HE is allowing ILLEGALS to come into a state and take valuable resources up without paying any taxes. We also have crime riseing as some illegals have been caught doing very serious and voilent crimes. Myself I am here legally and am grateful for a country that has given me so very much. I am not happy with people who think they can just cross a border and then not learn the language of the country they are in or there laws. If I was in mexico and did not have proper passport I would be jailed. IF I even tried to get any help in Mexico I would be jailed as I am not a citizen of that country. IF I even suggested to speak out against that governement I would be jailed. IF the leaders of this organization can answer why the Mexican government will do that and why we shouldn't call that ethnic cleansing. HMM... maybe it is . They keep americans out of there country with laws JUST like America does. Your attack on this country is in very poor taste and very very immoral. Try to live within the laws of this country and know that there is an avenue for people to get there papers legally. Not just run over the border and expect the golden age.
CL: You must work for a newspaper, your investigation is more professional than BRIAN ERVIN "post", thanks a lot, maybe some North-American can learn something about your post.
Just as people in the US fought for Independence from England, Mexicans started their war for independence from Spain in 1810 and achieved it in 1821. After independence, the formerly Spanish territories were under Mexican control. Mexico forbid Anglo immigration. Whites consistently broke Mexican law when they illegally invaded California and the Southwest.
In Texas, the Mexican government had given permission for some whites to emigrate. But thousands more Anglo immigrants, or criminals, arrived illegally.
Prior to 1823, there were less than three thousand white people in Texas. At that time, the Mexican government had given Stephen Austin permission to live there along with a few hundred other Gringos, with the condition that they would become Mexican citizens, they would speak Spanish, and they would pledge allegiance to the Mexican government. But white colonists began to enter the territory illegally and brought their slaves with them. Within a decade, whites outnumbered the Hispanic inhabitants. Gringos were interested in the rich agricultural lands of the Texan territory. These were the illegal aliens of their day, see Patricia Nelson Limerick, The Legacy of Conquest: The Unbroken Past of the American West. By 1830, whites outnumbered Mexicans 25,000 to 4,000.
In 1835 Sam Houston, who had illegally crossed into Texas, argued against mixing with the Mexicans, “no matter how long we may live among them.” See Houston speech to Soldiers, January 15, 1836, in the Papers of the Texas Revolution, 1835-1836, gen. Ed. John J. Jenkins, 4:30. The Gringos eventually overwhelmed the original inhabitants of the territory and began to impose the English language on them.
According to Mexican Lieutenant Jose Maria Sanchez, the foreign intruders “have taken possession of practically all the eastern part of Texas, in most cases without the permission of the authorities. They immigrate constantly, finding no one to prevent them, and take possession of the sitio (location) that best suits them without either asking leave or going through any formality other than that of building their homes.”
During the Battle of the Alamo, the defenders were fighting for slavery, which Mexico had abolished in Texas in 1829. After the defeats at the Alamo and Goliad, on April 21, 1836, Sam Houston’s army of less than 800 men defeated Santa Anna's army as it camped out on the San Jacinto River, east of present-day Houston. The next day, Houston's army captured Santa Anna himself and forced him to sign a treaty granting Texas its independence, a treaty that was never ratified by the Mexican government because it was acquired under duress.
Soon after, these Anglo aliens usurped Mexicans’ land. They began to dishonor Mexican land claims. They passed new laws in English, a foreign language for those Mexicans whose border had moved. Often Mexican land was auctioned off for pennies an acre for failure to pay taxes. Mexicans were commonly lynched and whole communities were driven out of Texas towns.
Gringos carried out raids in which they murdered Mexicans and forcibly took their land and stocks. Historian A.B.J. Hammet states that Mexican families were “driven from their homes, their cattle and horse and their lands, by an army of reckless, war-crazy people.” In 1839 over a hundred Mexican families were forced to abandon their houses in the town of Nacogdoches by invading Gringos. The mayor of San Antonio in 1840, Juan Seguin, states in his “Personal Memoirs of John N. Seguin”, how Mexicans came to him repeatedly from protection of the invading whites. Eventually, he had to flee to Mexico because of personal threats against him.
Anglo outlaws raided Mexican ranches, killing the inhabitants, burning homes and stores. Mexican livestock was declared public property and the invaders forcefully took Mexicans’ property and their land. Mexicans were driven out of Austin in 1853 and again in 1855. They were expelled from Seguin in 1854, from Matagorda and Colorado Counties in 1856, and from Uvalde in 1857.
Rancher Faustino Morales recalls that how the Gringos “came in and drove the Mexicans out and took over their ranches.” See Frank H. Dugan, “The 1850 Affairs of the Brownsfield Separatists”. Southwestern Historical Quarterly 61,no.2.
Years later, whites would also use the Texas Rangers to officially carry out their deeds. “Texas Rangers, in cooperation with land speculators, came into small Mexican villages in the border country, massacred hundreds of unarmed, peaceful Mexicans villagers and seized their lands. See “The Mexican Question in the Southwest, “ Political Affairs March 1939.
Most of the illegal aliens were land speculators and criminals. William Barret Travis had escaped to Mexican territory after he had killed a man. Jim Bowie was a slave trader who had gone into Texas hoping to make some business; Sam Houston and Davy Crockett had participated in the massacre of the Creeks at Horseshoe Bend.
Abb Emanuel Domenech, a religious missionary in Southern Texas, states in “Missionary Adventures in Texas and Mexico” that “The American of the Texan frontiers are, for the most part, the very scum of society-bankrupts, escaped criminals, old volunteers, who after the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, came into a country protected by nothing that could be called a judicial authority, to seek adventure and illicit gains.”
The Anglo invasion of Mexican territory was not confined to Texas. They arrived in droves and illegally occupied great parts of the Southwest and California. California Governor Pio Pico warned of how “we find ourselves threatened by hordes of Yankee immigrants who have already begun to flock into our country and whose progress we cannot arrest.” By the late 1800’s, Anglos had acquired four fifths of the Mexican land grants. See A History of Multicultural America, by Ronald Takaki. Six years after Texas independence, 1.3 million acres had been seized by 13 anglos. David Montejano, Anglos and Mexicans in the Making of Texas.
Believing in its racist ideology to wipe out other races by killing Indians and stretching to the Pacific Ocean, the United States had previously offered to purchase the Mexican territories of California, New Mexico, and Arizona for $15 milion. Mexico had indignantly refused the offer. Just as George Bush used the pretext of Weapons of Mass Destruction to attack Irak, US President James Polk then instigated war against Mexico in 1846 in hopes of acquiring Mexican territory. Most historians agree that this war was unjustified. Opponents of the war included Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry Clay, Mark Twain and Daniel Webster.
One of the most interesting episodes of the Mexican War surrounded the St. Patrick's Battalion. Among the American troops was a contingent of Irish-born soldiers. After the war commenced, 200 of these soldiers concluded that they were fighting on the wrong side. They didn't like the fact that the United States was using its overwhelming might to invade and conquer a much weaker nation. They deserted the American army and began fighting for the Mexican army. When U.S. Gen. Winfield Scott and his troops reached Mexico City, after invading at Veracruz, they captured the St. Patrick soldiers and hanged 50 of them. The Mexican War ended with the surrender of Mexico and with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. With this treaty, Mexico lost one-half of its territory. The United States ended up paying what it had previously offered Mexico - $15 million. But this illegal and unjust war cannot be justified, just as I cannot go into your home, put a gun to your head, force you to sell me your house for $5, and then pretend that this transaction was just or legal.
Today's immigrants are not different from other immigrants who have arrived here in the past. Throughout the 1800s, there was a huge wave of immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe, Italians, Polish, Russsians, Jews, who arrived on our shores with no knowledge of English. These newcomers encountered the same racist nativist bullshit that is being heard today. It is estimated that four million Italians and three million Slavs arrived during that time. More than two million Jews also emigrated to the US. These people were poor and illiterate. They could not read or write in their own language, much less in English. Germans and English also arrived in the millions to escape political instability and food shortages in their countries. Newspapers of the day decried that arrival of these aliens and condemned the corrupt governments who sent these people to the shores of the United States.
Riots erupted in opposition to the presence of these immigrants. Just like in the previous century, when Germans were accused by Anglos of being the cause of all ills in society, immigrants were scapegoated.
The Irish fled Ireland starting in the 1840s to escape the deadly potato famine. Millions of Irish arrived to the American continent, almost a third of North America's immigrants. They were escaping political corruption and certain starvation in their country.
Most immigrants came for economic reasons and were part of extensive migratory systems that responded to changing demands in labor markets. The American economy had needed both unskilled and skilled workers through much of the nineteenth century. But after the 1880s, the demand was almost exclusively for unskilled workers to fill the growing number of factory jobs. More than five million immigrants came to the US during the 1880s alone. Southern and eastern Europeans, dislocated from their land and possessing few skills, were attracted to the burgeoning industries in the United States.
Like today’s Latino immigrants, Italian immigrants were particularly likely to take heavy construction jobs after arrival in the US. About half of all late 19th century Italian immigrants were manual laborers. Contracted out by a professional labor broker known as a “Padrone,” Italians dug tunnels, laid railroad tracks, constructed bridges and roads. They were mostly young, single, and had little money. The Irish immigrants had few technical skills, and their agricultural skills were limited to the spade-culture of potatoes and animal tending. They were half-starved, weak and destitute. A New York Times Editorial, June 2, 1874, urged the US government to turn a million Italian beggars into prosperous citizens.
Too poor to leave Ireland when the Potato famine began, families found passage on overcrowded, fever-ridden ships after unscrupulous businessmen discovered they could make money transporting desperate people to the US. On these "coffin ships," as they came to be known, many of them died during or just after the trip, but they had no choice but to leave for a better future or to starve to death in their own countries. These aliens had no skills, no tools, no education. Sometimes immigrant men had to be supported by their wives and daughters who worked as domestic servants in hotels and private homes, while they themselves worked sporadically sweeping streets, tending horses, cleaning stables, cutting fish, and performing any other menial work they could find.
The Italians immigrants were escaping poverty from their country, unemployment, high mortality, no medical care, little or no schooling, poor housing, semi-starvation, and exploitation. The majority of immigrants around the turn of the century were males who worked and saved money to send back to their families back home. Shipping companies made large profits by carrying immigrant aliens to the United States. They would bring cotton, wood, and crop cargoes to Europe and on the return trip bring immigrants to the US. There was hardly a city of any size in US that did not have a section designated as “Little Italy.” Italians would look to settle in these areas, for it was here that they felt free from the discrimination around them. This resulted in the formation of very definite ethnic communities: Irish, Polish and Jewish ethnic enclaves developed.
The majority of these European aliens entered the country illegally. For this reason, in 1891, Congress passed a law stating that those who had entered the country illegally could be expelled within one year. See Reports of the Immigration Commission (61 Cong., 3 Sess., Senate Doc. No. 758.) However, these aliens simply got off the boats, declared themselves to be American, and blended with the larger society.
By blaming immigrants for all the problems in their cities, politicians hoped to easily win election to office. In 1884 US congressmen decried that Italy and Hungary were shipping “as many cattle, large number of degraded, ignorant, brutal foreign serfs” to replace American citizens.
The racist media, who has always been the main conduct of anti-immigrant propaganda, proclaimed:
“These people are not Americans, but the very scum and offal of Europe…an invasion of venomous reptiles…long-haired, wild-eyes, bad-smelling, atheistic, reckless foreign wretches, who never did an honest hour’s work in their lives..crush such snakes…before they have time to bite.” See Public Opinion, I (1886), 82-86, iii (1887), 49 and V (1888), 432.
In 1882, the New York Tribune spoke against Jewish immigrants: “Numerous complaints have been made in regard to the Hebrew immigrants who lounge about Battery Park, obstructing the walks and sitting on the chains. Their filthy condition has caused many of the people who are accustomed to go to the park to seek a little recreation and fresh air to give up this practice. The immigrants also greatly annoy the persons who cross the park to take the boats to Coney Island, Staten Island and Brooklyn. The police have had many battles with these newcomers, who seem determined to have their own way.”
The Chinese immigrants also arrived, but they experienced more direct discrimination because of their non-European origins. There were numerous riots against Chinese miners in California in the mid 1800s. In 1885, the population of Eureka drove all the Chinese out of Humboldt county by threat of force. In 1885, there were anti-Chinese riots in Rock Springs, Wyoming. An Arizona newspaper editorialized against the Chinese immigrants who sent money back to their families: “The Chinese are the least desired immigrants who have ever sought the United States…the almond-eyed Mongolian with his pig-tail, his heathenism, his filthy habits, his thrift and careful accumulation of savings to be sent back to the flowery kingdom.”
The Montanian newspaper in 1873 editorialized against the Chinese: “We don’t mind hearing of a Chinaman being killed now and then, but it has been coming too thick of late…Don’t kill them unless they deserve it, but when they do--why kill’em lots.” In 1869, Montana governor James M. Ashley advocated” …Montana is better adopted to the hardy races of men and women from Great Britain and Northern Europe…” The Chinatowns that sprang up in cities like San Francisco and New York was a defense mechanism against the hatred and prejudice of the society around them. According to the racist newspaper editorials of the time, “The manners and habits of the Chinese are very repugnant to Americans in California. Of different language, blood, religion, and character, inferior in most mental and bodily qualities, the Chinaman is looked upon by some as only a little superior to the Negro, and by others as somewhat inferior. See Frank Soule, John H. Gihon, and James Nisbet, The Annals of San Franciso (1966).
Anti-Chinese riots occurred in San Francisco in 1869, and in Los Angeles in Chinatown, when whites descended on the area and burned and looted businesses, beat the Chinese , and killed at least 19 Chinese during four hours. See “Chinese Massacre at Los Angeles in 1871,” Annual Publication of the Historical Society of Southern California (Los Angeles, 1894), C.P. Dorland. In 1877, a similar even took place in San Francisco when whites attacked the Chinese ghetto in San Francisco. In the California Constitution, Article XIX was added in 1879, which forbade employment of any Chinese in any public work and allowed any city to expel its Chinese residents. In the 1850s, the California’s Supreme Court stated that Chinese were Indians, and similarly as with Mexicans, they could not testify in court against a white man.
Between 1820 and 1890, fifteen million people immigrated to the US, 2/3s of them from Germany, Ireland and Great Britain. The majority of the British immigrants were paupers.
It was during this period that the Know-Nothing organizations were created in response to the arrival of these new immigrants who were considered different from "true Americans". Immigrants were often lynched by mobs. Riots were common throughout the nation to protest the arrival of these undesirables. Irish immigrants were considered by nativists to be lazy drunks. Poles, Italians and Jews were considered to be racially inferior and to be detrimental to America society.
The Know Nothing Party feared the arrival of Catholic Irish. They advocated banning immigrants from holding office, and a 21-year wait for citizenship. They used criminal statistics to show that Irish were the group with the greatest number of arrest in cities like New York. Eugenicists like Edward Jarvis published studies that indicated that immigrants had higher rates of mental disorders.
In the early 1850s the anti-Catholic Native American Party was established to attack the foreign religious elements of the German and Irish. Convents were burned, priests were driven from their pulpits.
Nativists blamed Catholics for unemployment by stating that Papal agents had unleashed millions of Italians on American soil to take away the jobs from native Americans. They stated that Catholics had started a run on banks to prepare the way for the seizure of the US government by Italy’s Pope. They fabricated a document “Instructions to Catholics”, which detailed a conspiracy by Catholics to control the American workplace. See Washington Gladden, “The Anti-Catholic Crusade”, Century Magazine, XLVII (1894), 790.
In 1855, German immigrants, who were routinely persecuted, were involved in deadly riots against Know Nothings in Cincinnati, Columbus and Louisville.
These immigrants were accused by the larger society of refusing to assimilate. Little Italys and Irelands could be found in major cities like Hartford, New Haven, Waterbury, and New Britain, where they were sealed off from the wider American society. New Haven's Italian colony centered around Wooster Square. It was at first a neighborhood for the Irish. There were many large mansions in the area. However, after the Civil War, industry began flourishing and factories moved into the area. Landlords turned the remaining homes into multiple dwellings which became overcrowded and neglected.
In The Children of Columbus by Erik Amfitheatrof, he describes the worst of the padroni as "flesh peddlers" who recruited peasants from southern Italy, stuck dozens of people in disgusting tenements and took over 60% of their pay as their commission. Jacob Riis, an immigrant, described the horrors of these tenements in his book How The Other Half Lives. He reports "one room 12x12 with five families living in it, comprising twenty persons of both sexes and all ages, with only two beds, without partitions, screen, chair or table." In New Orleans in the 1800s, many Sicilians had settled in this area and were employed as fishermen or farmers. Italians were generally stereotyped as mafioso criminals. In 1891, the police chief had been investigating reports of what he considered to be mafia activity in the city. He was assassinated by unknown assailants and the backlash against the Italian community was hysterically racist. Suspicion fell on the Italians in the community and ten were arrested and put on trial for the crime. The mayor of the city had made an announcement to the press that "We must teach these people a lesson they will not forget for all time." All ten of the men were acquitted. However, after the verdict, a mob of 5,000 angry New Orleaneans stormed the jail and shot the men to death in their cells.
In "Restriction of Immigration"(Atlantic Monthly, June, 1896) Francis A. Walker warned that vast inpourings of southern European immigrants threatened to overwhelm and thereby degrade American culture and institutions.
According to Walker "for nearly two generations, great numbers of persons utterly unable to earn their living, by reason of one or another form of physical or mental disability, and others who were, from widely different causes, unfit to be members of any decent community, were admitted to our ports without challenge or question. It is a matter of official record that in many cases these persons had been directly shipped to us by states or municipalities desiring to rid themselves of a burden and a nuisance...while yet the patriotic American of to-day may properly shrink in terror from the contemplation of the vast hordes of ignorant and brutalized peasantry thronging to our shores...The arrival in the United States, between 1830 and 1840, and thereafter increasingly, of large numbers of degraded peasantry created for the first time in this country distinct social classes, and produced an alteration of economic relations which could not fail powerfully to affect population. The appearance of vast numbers of men, foreign in birth and often in language, with a poorer standard of living, with habits repellent to our native people, of an industrial grade suited only to the lowest kind of manual labor, was exactly such a cause as by any student of population would be expected to affect profoundly the growth of the native population. Americans shrank alike from the social contact and the economic competition thus created. They became increasingly unwilling to bring forth sons and daughters who should be obliged to compete in the market for labor and in the walks of life with those whom they did not recognize as of their own grade and condition. It has been said by some that during this time habits of luxury were entering, to reduce both the disposition and the ability to increase among our own population. In some small degree, in some restricted localities, this undoubtedly was the case; but prior to 1860 there was no such general growth of luxury in the United States as is competent to account for the effect seen. Indeed, I believe this was almost wholly due to the cause which has been indicated,--a cause recognized by every student of statistics and economics."
According to a 1911 study of the US Immigration Commission, the new immigrants "...has been largely a movement of unskilled laboring men who have come from the less progressive countries of Europe...They have...congregated together in sections apart from native Americans and the older immigrants to such an extent that assimilation has been slow." Citing from the racist book The Passing of the Great Race, a book by Madison Grant, the Commission stated: "The new immigration contained a large and increasing number of the weak, the broken, and the mentally crippled of all races drawn from the lowest stratum of the Meditarranean basin and the Balkans, together with hordes of the wretched, submerged populations of the Polish ghettoes. Our jails, insane asylums, and almshouses are filled with human flotsam and the whole tone of American life, social, moral, and political, has been lowered and vulgarized by them."
European Immigration to the US:
1841-50: 1.6 million
1851-60: 2.5 million
1861-70: 2.1 million
1871-80: 2.3 million
1881-90: 4.7 million
1891-900: 3.6 million
1901-1910: 8.1 million
1911-20: 4.3 million
1921-30: 2.5 million
Dr. Larry Laughlin, appointed as consultant to the House Committee on Immigration and Naturalization in 1922, provided support to the anti-immigrant propaganda, by stating in testimony to congress that Italians, Slovaks, Russian and Polish Jews had three times the insanity rate of American natives.
Today, about 10 percent of U.S. residents are foreign-born, far short of the 14.7 percent who were foreign-born in 1910.
The voters of this great state have spoken. The only unconstitutional thing that could happen is that this legislation be delayed or overturned because some pastor says his congregation is dwindling and costing him money. Who cares if an illegal immigrant lost their driver's license. If they had one, they committed fraud to get it in the first place. Who cares if a restaurant that cators to illegal immigrants is losing business? Those aren't legal arguments against this legislation... all it is is whining... and a waste of tax payer dollars...
I'm tired of hearing about the latins. If you come to this country ILLEGALY should be held accountable, and sent back to your country of origin, regardless of where that might be. Our country was founded on christianity and with a common language of ENGLISH. And everyone that wants to come to our country should have that premise in mind, i'm going to learn english and i'm going to become an american citizen. But no, the latins you so highly speak of, want to keep their own culture, language and want to fly their mexican flags over their houses. This is a slap in the face to all the immigrants that have filled our borders over the years, its a slap in the face to the men and women soldiers fighting to keep our great country safe. You want to be welcomed into our country, put down your un-american flags, put the red white and blue up, and see if we americans don't change our tune. After all, if your country was so great, WHY DIDN'T YOU STAY THERE ?
I have a few "strong words" for "Rev" Rivera, can you say ethnic-supremacist? He doesn't speak for all Hispanics in the United States, he advocates for illegal aliens and expects that they should be allowed to violate all sorts of our laws, rules, customs and norms with impunity and without fear of getting caught. Is that what he teaches his congregation? I suspect that if we were talking about 25,000 illegal aliens from Zimbabwe or Luxembourg, Rivera wouldn't even be on the radar. The poetic justice is that the Federal judge dismissed this frivolous lawsuit and ruled that none of plaintiffs had any standing to sue the State of Oklahoma for their "imaginary wrongs" or "imagined fear" of their lawlessness being curtailed. Si se puede....enforce the law. Si se puede..build the fence. Just say NO MAS to ethnic-supremacists like Rivera and his ilk.
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COMMENTS
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
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Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
well, tomorrow i find out if he will return back to honduras and if im going to move there myself. wish me luck!
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
rights & laws to protect them than these poeple.
And when anti-abortion use religions for their
cause, it's okay. But when others do the same for
other causes it's wrong. Religious leaders better
start preaching against hate, racism. They are many evil thing in this contry-alcohol, smoking,
pornography, tatoos, gossip, lies, credit cards
over spending, adultery, etc. Shalom.
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
My heart honestly goes out to those who flee to this country from any other to try and make a better life for themselves. I don't believe it should be as difficult or costly for someone to gain legal citizenship here as it currently is. I see it as another barrier to those who can't make ends meet back home as it is.
I'll leave you with this one quote that should have settled the matter decades ago.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
To those who are of the MISTAKEN belief that illegals do not pay taxes, newsflash---THEY DO. I have never gone into a store that did not charge sales tax. Those working under fictious social security numbers DO have taxes taken from their earnings. They do not file tax returns however so they don't receive any refunds.
Yes, there are problems with illegal aliens. Yes, there needs to be reforms. But
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
If I was in mexico and did not have proper passport I would be jailed. IF I even tried to get any help in Mexico I would be jailed as I am not a citizen of that country. IF I even suggested to speak out against that governement I would be jailed. IF the leaders of this organization can answer why the Mexican government will do that and why we shouldn't call that ethnic cleansing. HMM... maybe it is . They keep americans out of there country with laws JUST like America does. Your attack on this country is in very poor taste and very very immoral. Try to live within the laws of this country and know that there is an avenue for people to get there papers legally. Not just run over the border and expect the golden age.
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
After independence, the formerly Spanish territories were under Mexican control. Mexico forbid Anglo immigration.
Whites consistently broke Mexican law when they illegally invaded California and the Southwest.
In Texas, the Mexican government had given permission for some whites to emigrate. But thousands more Anglo immigrants, or criminals, arrived illegally.
Prior to 1823, there were less than three thousand white people in Texas. At that time, the Mexican government had given Stephen Austin permission to live there along with a few hundred other Gringos, with the condition that they would become Mexican citizens, they would speak Spanish, and they would pledge allegiance to the Mexican government. But white colonists began to enter the territory illegally and brought their slaves with them. Within a decade, whites outnumbered the Hispanic inhabitants. Gringos were interested in the rich agricultural lands of the Texan territory. These were the illegal aliens of their day, see Patricia Nelson Limerick, The Legacy of Conquest: The Unbroken Past of the American West. By 1830, whites outnumbered Mexicans 25,000 to 4,000.
In 1835 Sam Houston, who had illegally crossed into Texas, argued against mixing with the Mexicans, “no matter how long we may live among them.” See Houston speech to Soldiers, January 15, 1836, in the Papers of the Texas Revolution, 1835-1836, gen. Ed. John J. Jenkins, 4:30. The Gringos eventually overwhelmed the original inhabitants of the territory and began to impose the English language on them.
According to Mexican Lieutenant Jose Maria Sanchez, the foreign intruders “have taken possession of practically all the eastern part of Texas, in most cases without the permission of the authorities. They immigrate constantly, finding no one to prevent them, and take possession of the sitio (location) that best suits them without either asking leave or going through any formality other than that of building their homes.”
During the Battle of the Alamo, the defenders were fighting for slavery, which Mexico had abolished in Texas in 1829. After the defeats at the Alamo and Goliad, on April 21, 1836, Sam Houston’s army of less than 800 men defeated Santa Anna's army as it camped out on the San Jacinto River, east of present-day Houston. The next day, Houston's army captured Santa Anna himself and forced him to sign a treaty granting Texas its independence, a treaty that was never ratified by the Mexican government because it was acquired under duress.
Soon after, these Anglo aliens usurped Mexicans’ land. They began to dishonor Mexican land claims. They passed new laws in English, a foreign language for those Mexicans whose border had moved. Often Mexican land was auctioned off for pennies an acre for failure to pay taxes. Mexicans were commonly lynched and whole communities were driven out of Texas towns.
Gringos carried out raids in which they murdered Mexicans and forcibly took their land and stocks. Historian A.B.J. Hammet states that Mexican families were “driven from their homes, their cattle and horse and their lands, by an army of reckless, war-crazy people.” In 1839 over a hundred Mexican families were forced to abandon their houses in the town of Nacogdoches by invading Gringos. The mayor of San Antonio in 1840, Juan Seguin, states in his “Personal Memoirs of John N. Seguin”, how Mexicans came to him repeatedly from protection of the invading whites. Eventually, he had to flee to Mexico because of personal threats against him.
Anglo outlaws raided Mexican ranches, killing the inhabitants, burning homes and stores. Mexican livestock was declared public property and the invaders forcefully took Mexicans’ property and their land. Mexicans were driven out of Austin in 1853 and again in 1855. They were expelled from Seguin in 1854, from Matagorda and Colorado Counties in 1856, and from Uvalde in 1857.
Rancher Faustino Morales recalls that how the Gringos “came in and drove the Mexicans out and took over their ranches.” See Frank H. Dugan, “The 1850 Affairs of the Brownsfield Separatists”. Southwestern Historical Quarterly 61,no.2.
Years later, whites would also use the Texas Rangers to officially carry out their deeds. “Texas Rangers, in cooperation with land speculators, came into small Mexican villages in the border country, massacred hundreds of unarmed, peaceful Mexicans villagers and seized their lands. See “The Mexican Question in the Southwest, “ Political Affairs March 1939.
Most of the illegal aliens were land speculators and criminals. William Barret Travis had escaped to Mexican territory after he had killed a man. Jim Bowie was a slave trader who had gone into Texas hoping to make some business; Sam Houston and Davy Crockett had participated in the massacre of the Creeks at Horseshoe Bend.
Abb Emanuel Domenech, a religious missionary in Southern Texas, states in “Missionary Adventures in Texas and Mexico” that “The American of the Texan frontiers are, for the most part, the very scum of society-bankrupts, escaped criminals, old volunteers, who after the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, came into a country protected by nothing that could be called a judicial authority, to seek adventure and illicit gains.”
The Anglo invasion of Mexican territory was not confined to Texas. They arrived in droves and illegally occupied great parts of the Southwest and California.
California Governor Pio Pico warned of how “we find ourselves threatened by hordes of Yankee immigrants who have already begun to flock into our country and whose progress we cannot arrest.”
By the late 1800’s, Anglos had acquired four fifths of the Mexican land grants. See A History of Multicultural America, by Ronald Takaki. Six years after Texas independence, 1.3 million acres had been seized by 13 anglos. David Montejano, Anglos and Mexicans in the Making of Texas.
Believing in its racist ideology to wipe out other races by killing Indians and stretching to the Pacific Ocean, the United States had previously offered to purchase the Mexican territories of California, New Mexico, and Arizona for $15 milion. Mexico had indignantly refused the offer. Just as George Bush used the pretext of Weapons of Mass Destruction to attack Irak, US President James Polk then instigated war against Mexico in 1846 in hopes of acquiring Mexican territory. Most historians agree that this war was unjustified. Opponents of the war included Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry Clay, Mark Twain and Daniel Webster.
One of the most interesting episodes of the Mexican War surrounded the St. Patrick's Battalion. Among the American troops was a contingent of Irish-born soldiers. After the war commenced, 200 of these soldiers concluded that they were fighting on the wrong side. They didn't like the fact that the United States was using its overwhelming might to invade and conquer a much weaker nation. They deserted the American army and began fighting for the Mexican army.
When U.S. Gen. Winfield Scott and his troops reached Mexico City, after invading at Veracruz, they captured the St. Patrick soldiers and hanged 50 of them.
The Mexican War ended with the surrender of Mexico and with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. With this treaty, Mexico lost one-half of its territory. The United States ended up paying what it had previously offered Mexico - $15 million.
But this illegal and unjust war cannot be justified, just as I cannot go into your home, put a gun to your head, force you to sell me your house for $5, and then pretend that this transaction was just or legal.
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
Riots erupted in opposition to the presence of these immigrants. Just like in the previous century, when Germans were accused by Anglos of being the cause of all ills in society, immigrants were scapegoated.
The Irish fled Ireland starting in the 1840s to escape the deadly potato famine. Millions of Irish arrived to the American continent, almost a third of North America's immigrants. They were escaping political corruption and certain starvation in their country.
Most immigrants came for economic reasons and were part of extensive migratory systems that responded to changing demands in labor markets. The American economy had needed both unskilled and skilled workers through much of the nineteenth century. But after the 1880s, the demand was almost exclusively for unskilled workers to fill the growing number of factory jobs. More than five million immigrants came to the US during the 1880s alone. Southern and eastern Europeans, dislocated from their land and possessing few skills, were attracted to the burgeoning industries in the United States.
Like today’s Latino immigrants, Italian immigrants were particularly likely to take heavy construction jobs after arrival in the US. About half of all late 19th century Italian immigrants were manual laborers. Contracted out by a professional labor broker known as a “Padrone,” Italians dug tunnels, laid railroad tracks, constructed bridges and roads. They were mostly young, single, and had little money. The Irish immigrants had few technical skills, and their agricultural skills were limited to the spade-culture of potatoes and animal tending. They were half-starved, weak and destitute. A New York Times Editorial, June 2, 1874, urged the US government to turn a million Italian beggars into prosperous citizens.
Too poor to leave Ireland when the Potato famine began, families found passage on overcrowded, fever-ridden ships after unscrupulous businessmen discovered they could make money transporting desperate people to the US. On these "coffin ships," as they came to be known, many of them died during or just after the trip, but they had no choice but to leave for a better future or to starve to death in their own countries. These aliens had no skills, no tools, no education. Sometimes immigrant men had to be supported by their wives and daughters who worked as domestic servants in hotels and private homes, while they themselves worked sporadically sweeping streets, tending horses, cleaning stables, cutting fish, and performing any other menial work they could find.
The Italians immigrants were escaping poverty from their country, unemployment, high mortality, no medical care, little or no schooling, poor housing, semi-starvation, and exploitation. The majority of immigrants around the turn of the century were males who worked and saved money to send back to their families back home. Shipping companies made large profits by carrying immigrant aliens to the United States. They would bring cotton, wood, and crop cargoes to Europe and on the return trip bring immigrants to the US. There was hardly a city of any size in US that did not have a section designated as “Little Italy.” Italians would look to settle in these areas, for it was here that they felt free from the discrimination around them. This resulted in the formation of very definite ethnic communities: Irish, Polish and Jewish ethnic enclaves developed.
The majority of these European aliens entered the country illegally. For this reason, in 1891, Congress passed a law stating that those who had entered the country illegally could be expelled within one year. See Reports of the Immigration Commission (61 Cong., 3 Sess., Senate Doc. No. 758.) However, these aliens simply got off the boats, declared themselves to be American, and blended with the larger society.
By blaming immigrants for all the problems in their cities, politicians hoped to easily win election to office. In 1884 US congressmen decried that Italy and Hungary were shipping “as many cattle, large number of degraded, ignorant, brutal foreign serfs” to replace American citizens.
The racist media, who has always been the main conduct of anti-immigrant propaganda, proclaimed:
“These people are not Americans, but the very scum and offal of Europe…an invasion of venomous reptiles…long-haired, wild-eyes, bad-smelling, atheistic, reckless foreign wretches, who never did an honest hour’s work in their lives..crush such snakes…before they have time to bite.” See Public Opinion, I (1886), 82-86, iii (1887), 49 and V (1888), 432.
In 1882, the New York Tribune spoke against Jewish immigrants: “Numerous complaints have been made in regard to the Hebrew immigrants who lounge about Battery Park, obstructing the walks and sitting on the chains. Their filthy condition has caused many of the people who are accustomed to go to the park to seek a little recreation and fresh air to give up this practice. The immigrants also greatly annoy the persons who cross the park to take the boats to Coney Island, Staten Island and Brooklyn. The police have had many battles with these newcomers, who seem determined to have their own way.”
The Chinese immigrants also arrived, but they experienced more direct discrimination because of their non-European origins. There were numerous riots against Chinese miners in California in the mid 1800s. In 1885, the population of Eureka drove all the Chinese out of Humboldt county by threat of force. In 1885, there were anti-Chinese riots in Rock Springs, Wyoming. An Arizona newspaper editorialized against the Chinese immigrants who sent money back to their families: “The Chinese are the least desired immigrants who have ever sought the United States…the almond-eyed Mongolian with his pig-tail, his heathenism, his filthy habits, his thrift and careful accumulation of savings to be sent back to the flowery kingdom.”
The Montanian newspaper in 1873 editorialized against the Chinese: “We don’t mind hearing of a Chinaman being killed now and then, but it has been coming too thick of late…Don’t kill them unless they deserve it, but when they do--why kill’em lots.” In 1869, Montana governor James M. Ashley advocated” …Montana is better adopted to the hardy races of men and women from Great Britain and Northern Europe…” The Chinatowns that sprang up in cities like San Francisco and New York was a defense mechanism against the hatred and prejudice of the society around them. According to the racist newspaper editorials of the time, “The manners and habits of the Chinese are very repugnant to Americans in California. Of different language, blood, religion, and character, inferior in most mental and bodily qualities, the Chinaman is looked upon by some as only a little superior to the Negro, and by others as somewhat inferior. See Frank Soule, John H. Gihon, and James Nisbet, The Annals of San Franciso (1966).
Anti-Chinese riots occurred in San Francisco in 1869, and in Los Angeles in Chinatown, when whites descended on the area and burned and looted businesses, beat the Chinese , and killed at least 19 Chinese during four hours. See “Chinese Massacre at Los Angeles in 1871,” Annual Publication of the Historical Society of Southern California (Los Angeles, 1894), C.P. Dorland. In 1877, a similar even took place in San Francisco when whites attacked the Chinese ghetto in San Francisco. In the California Constitution, Article XIX was added in 1879, which forbade employment of any Chinese in any public work and allowed any city to expel its Chinese residents. In the 1850s, the California’s Supreme Court stated that Chinese were Indians, and similarly as with Mexicans, they could not testify in court against a white man.
Between 1820 and 1890, fifteen million people immigrated to the US, 2/3s of them from Germany, Ireland and Great Britain. The majority of the British immigrants were paupers.
It was during this period that the Know-Nothing organizations were created in response to the arrival of these new immigrants who were considered different from "true Americans". Immigrants were often lynched by mobs. Riots were common throughout the nation to protest the arrival of these undesirables. Irish immigrants were considered by nativists to be lazy drunks. Poles, Italians and Jews were considered to be racially inferior and to be detrimental to America society.
The Know Nothing Party feared the arrival of Catholic Irish. They advocated banning immigrants from holding office, and a 21-year wait for citizenship. They used criminal statistics to show that Irish were the group with the greatest number of arrest in cities like New York. Eugenicists like Edward Jarvis published studies that indicated that immigrants had higher rates of mental disorders.
In the early 1850s the anti-Catholic Native American Party was established to attack the foreign religious elements of the German and Irish. Convents were burned, priests were driven from their pulpits.
Nativists blamed Catholics for unemployment by stating that Papal agents had unleashed millions of Italians on American soil to take away the jobs from native Americans. They stated that Catholics had started a run on banks to prepare the way for the seizure of the US government by Italy’s Pope. They fabricated a document “Instructions to Catholics”, which detailed a conspiracy by Catholics to control the American workplace. See Washington Gladden, “The Anti-Catholic Crusade”, Century Magazine, XLVII (1894), 790.
In 1855, German immigrants, who were routinely persecuted, were involved in deadly riots against Know Nothings in Cincinnati, Columbus and Louisville.
These immigrants were accused by the larger society of refusing to assimilate. Little Italys and Irelands could be found in major cities like Hartford, New Haven, Waterbury, and New Britain, where they were sealed off from the wider American society. New Haven's Italian colony centered around Wooster Square. It was at first a neighborhood for the Irish. There were many large mansions in the area. However, after the Civil War, industry began flourishing and factories moved into the area. Landlords turned the remaining homes into multiple dwellings which became overcrowded and neglected.
In The Children of Columbus by Erik Amfitheatrof, he describes the worst of the padroni as "flesh peddlers" who recruited peasants from southern Italy, stuck dozens of people in disgusting tenements and took over 60% of their pay as their commission. Jacob Riis, an immigrant, described the horrors of these tenements in his book How The Other Half Lives. He reports "one room 12x12 with five families living in it, comprising twenty persons of both sexes and all ages, with only two beds, without partitions, screen, chair or table." In New Orleans in the 1800s, many Sicilians had settled in this area and were employed as fishermen or farmers. Italians were generally stereotyped as mafioso criminals. In 1891, the police chief had been investigating reports of what he considered to be mafia activity in the city. He was assassinated by unknown assailants and the backlash against the Italian community was hysterically racist. Suspicion fell on the Italians in the community and ten were arrested and put on trial for the crime. The mayor of the city had made an announcement to the press that "We must teach these people a lesson they will not forget for all time." All ten of the men were acquitted. However, after the verdict, a mob of 5,000 angry New Orleaneans stormed the jail and shot the men to death in their cells.
In "Restriction of Immigration"(Atlantic Monthly, June, 1896) Francis A. Walker warned that vast inpourings of southern European immigrants threatened to overwhelm and thereby degrade American culture and institutions.
According to Walker "for nearly two generations, great numbers of persons utterly unable to earn their living, by reason of one or another form of physical or mental disability, and others who were, from widely different causes, unfit to be members of any decent community, were admitted to our ports without challenge or question. It is a matter of official record that in many cases these persons had been directly shipped to us by states or municipalities desiring to rid themselves of a burden and a nuisance...while yet the patriotic American of to-day may properly shrink in terror from the contemplation of the vast hordes of ignorant and brutalized peasantry thronging to our shores...The arrival in the United States, between 1830 and 1840, and thereafter increasingly, of large numbers of degraded peasantry created for the first time in this country distinct social classes, and produced an alteration of economic relations which could not fail powerfully to affect population. The appearance of vast numbers of men, foreign in birth and often in language, with a poorer standard of living, with habits repellent to our native people, of an industrial grade suited only to the lowest kind of manual labor, was exactly such a cause as by any student of population would be expected to affect profoundly the growth of the native population. Americans shrank alike from the social contact and the economic competition thus created. They became increasingly unwilling to bring forth sons and daughters who should be obliged to compete in the market for labor and in the walks of life with those whom they did not recognize as of their own grade and condition. It has been said by some that during this time habits of luxury were entering, to reduce both the disposition and the ability to increase among our own population. In some small degree, in some restricted localities, this undoubtedly was the case; but prior to 1860 there was no such general growth of luxury in the United States as is competent to account for the effect seen. Indeed, I believe this was almost wholly due to the cause which has been indicated,--a cause recognized by every student of statistics and economics."
According to a 1911 study of the US Immigration Commission, the new immigrants "...has been largely a movement of unskilled laboring men who have come from the less progressive countries of Europe...They have...congregated together in sections apart from native Americans and the older immigrants to such an extent that assimilation has been slow." Citing from the racist book The Passing of the Great Race, a book by Madison Grant, the Commission stated: "The new immigration contained a large and increasing number of the weak, the broken, and the mentally crippled of all races drawn from the lowest stratum of the Meditarranean basin and the Balkans, together with hordes of the wretched, submerged populations of the Polish ghettoes. Our jails, insane asylums, and almshouses are filled with human flotsam and the whole tone of American life, social, moral, and political, has been lowered and vulgarized by them."
European Immigration to the US:
1841-50: 1.6 million
1851-60: 2.5 million
1861-70: 2.1 million
1871-80: 2.3 million
1881-90: 4.7 million
1891-900: 3.6 million
1901-1910: 8.1 million
1911-20: 4.3 million
1921-30: 2.5 million
Dr. Larry Laughlin, appointed as consultant to the House Committee on Immigration and Naturalization in 1922, provided support to the anti-immigrant propaganda, by stating in testimony to congress that Italians, Slovaks, Russian and Polish Jews had three times the insanity rate of American natives.
Today, about 10 percent of U.S. residents are foreign-born, far short of the 14.7 percent who were foreign-born in 1910.
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?
Re: Como Se Dice: Pogrom? Holocaust?