Vision2 is nothing more than a bailout/ bribery fund for American Airlines (prop 1) wrapped in the guise of community improvement (prop 2). The airport does needs repairs, but who is responsible for those repairs? According to the lease signed by IC Bus, American Airlines, Spirit, and others... they are, and not the taxpayers of Tulsa County as Dewey Bartlett would have you believe. If Tulsa County and Mayor Bartlett cannot be trusted to hold to the contracts or to hold these private corporations accountable to the leases they have signed, how are we to believe they will hold to promises of grand projects that are not tied by contractual obligation to monies in prop 2? Every project that anyone has advocated for or that you have heard of in the news is nothing more than an idea. The money in prop 2 is not tied to ANY project and would not be tied to any project until AFTER the vote and then only when decided upon by a panel of 7 in secret meetings not open to public record. If that doesn't send up a red flag I don't know what will. This may be a Vision, but a vision for whom? These proposals do not have Tulsa or Tulsa County citizen’s best interests in mind. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the projects suggested getting done, but to hand a blank check over to Tulsa County with very little to no oversight is not the way to do it. If you are a conservative you cannot support these proposals as they encourage and condone crony capitalism, corporatism, and the government picking winners and losers. If you are a democrat you cannot support these proposals simply because they encourage and condone taking from the 99% to give to the 1%. Vision2 is too rushed, too much, too sloppy, and too soon. Vote NO on Vision2, Prop 1 & 2. www.facebook.com/StopVision2
I would like to hear a little elaboration from Jamie Jameison about (i) Richard Florida and (ii) Tulsa's Comprehensive Plan. Perhaps Jaime Adame might do a more in-depth report.
Folks i have lived in Tulsa most of my adult life . lived in California Texas Florida for about 10 yrs growing up. I was always so proud to say i was from Tulsa Oklahoma and every one knew our city was great and clean. The oil bust happened and every thing kinda stopped in Oklahoma. We need to keep going vision 2025 was great proceed with vision 2 who cares if there were closed door meetings there are always closed door meetings when you are dealing with goverments. We need to develop that stinky dreid up river i have said it once and will say it again go to San antonio heck go to OKC and look at there river development yeah there were hickups a long the way but look at the citys now. Every thing that they have now or starting to develop is because those stinky ole streams that ran through there towns. Develop the River in 10 to 15 years the taxes collected from this will pay for more development. Tulsa can be a place for our kids to say im staying right here! Sorry to ramble.
Im voting no just because I the taxpayer am not bailing out AA again. Where did the money go last time, I can tell you first hand it didint go where it was suppose to nor did they live up to the promises that were made to get the money. Now AMR has 20 million dollars a month in legal fees, funny they can pay those but cant maintain a building there using for a buck a year. I voting NO!!!!!!!!!!
I think it's time for one of these "temporary" taxes to expire, since that is always one of the selling points that they stress when they are trying to pass one of these taxes to begin with. Except that they are trying to extend this one before it has even gotten close to expiring.
This whole argument that Vision2 is an AA bailout is ridiculous. Those buildings are owned by the citizens of Tulsa and all the funds go toward citizen-owned infrastructure.
I was skeptical at first, but after studying it out and not just listening to all the naysayers that opposed the BOK Center, it is clear that is wise investment.
If AA does leave, we must have facilities that will attract other high paying jobs. If not, we could easily lose over 11,000 jobs. Does anyone realize what that would do to our city.
Vision2025 is proof that these packages work. Quit listening to all the sound bites and study the thing out.
Mayb bailout was the wrong word. As I recall in the vision 2025 vote, AA was threating to pull out of Tulsa if vision 2025 wasnt passed. I can tell you AA had no intention of pulling out of Tulsa, its called blackmailing the taxpayer, the bus plant is doing it this year and has no plans to leave just layoff which has already started. Money that was recieved at AA from vision 2025 wasnt used properly, AA still had layoffs and outsourced work, and is doing it even more in the BK. Which is my next question why are we even considering giving money to a company that has no leadership what so ever, they have to pay 20 million a month for consultants and attorneys to tell them what to do, people that have no idea what it takes to run an airline, come on people AA is gonna sell the base in pieces anyway to the best bidder, why give them money, it makes no sense, those 11,000 jobs may go away anyway, then who pays the bill. You do!!!!!!!!!!
Let's talk about 3/4 of a billion dollars! We are funding the suburbs, so this will not stop the flight to the suburbs. When the suburbs have to finance themselves, then there will be a balance. Let Vision 2025 run its course so we can have a real discourse around these issues.
@Golden_Ace21 We do own the property but if we were good landlords we would be charging the private corporations who occupy the buildings adequate rent that reflects the market value. Besides the fact that these private companies pay little (as low as $1 Dollar a year!!) to NO rent for the space, the lease they signed clearly states that the tenant, not Tulsa County taxpayers, are responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of the buildings. Furthermore, something like $135 MILLION would go towards equipment and training for American Airlines. Now we have Don Walker, vice-chair for the pro-Vision2 folks, saying things like - "Were it not for the potential of job loss, I would never recommend that we borrow this money to renovate and repair the facilities, but we have to do it now," Sure sounds like a bailout to me. Even using the same type of emotional blackmail used to pass the bailouts on the federal level. Vision2 is too rushed. We don't know enough about these proposals to allow them to pass. Vote NO. www.Facebook.com/StopVision2
Please vote for Vision 2 - there are very important projects on the County list - such as the juvenile bureau and court house. That is not a luxury item; it is a necessity and can only be funded by public money. Please don't let the other arguments stand in the way to defeat this very important project.
Anyone who votes for this has not done their homework. We were promised we would not shoulder the financial burden for these "aerospace improvements" and now here we are going to foot the bill to keep a company in Tulsa that files bankruptcy every time we blink. Keeping American Airlines afloat is the responsibility of American Airlines. Let them build their own hangars. Todd Cunningham says that Tulsa was a model of cosmopolitan living. Todd are you high. When did this happen. Tulsa was "NEVER" a model of cosmopolitan living! These people on here that are voting for this proposal if you'll notice are in one way or another connected to the proposal itself. Their organizations are either involved in this proposal or will benefit from it's passing or both. Golden-Ace, we may own the hangars but who uses them and there is more to it than just those particular hangars. AA stands to benefit enormously from the passage of this proposal. You say we lose 11,000 jobs. That is I agree a bad thing. However, businesses come and go and American Airlines should have been allowed to go under completely years ago. The people that manage AA are among the worst in the country. When Crane was involved (and I know this first hand) his theory was expand now, we can always cut back. Well, you see where that theory has gotten AA. Let them fall, let them go elsewhere, Tulsa survived without them before and Tulsa can do it again.
Golden Ace, where is the proof that Vision 2025 worked. I've seen nothing. A strip mall on the river with almost no businesses in it. A strip mall that is being bought by someone so soon after it was built because it lost money almost from day one. No one wants to sit outside and eat while they stare at nearly dry river bed. What other improvements are you talking about. The worst streets I've ever seen, you mentioned the BOK...big deal. Who profits from the BOK besides the City and a few (very few) small businesses downtown? I would really like for you to point out some improvements that benefit everyone not just a few. Please don't talk about those worthless statues along the river and I hope to God you don't talk about dog parks. Please I really want to know what was done with this money that Bill LaFortune had to have so bad that truly provided some kind of benefit to "everyone".
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Re: Views on Vision2
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Re: Views on Vision2
The airport does needs repairs, but who is responsible for those repairs? According to the lease signed by IC Bus, American Airlines, Spirit, and others... they are, and not the taxpayers of Tulsa County as Dewey Bartlett would have you believe.
If Tulsa County and Mayor Bartlett cannot be trusted to hold to the contracts or to hold these private corporations accountable to the leases they have signed, how are we to believe they will hold to promises of grand projects that are not tied by contractual obligation to monies in prop 2? Every project that anyone has advocated for or that you have heard of in the news is nothing more than an idea. The money in prop 2 is not tied to ANY project and would not be tied to any project until AFTER the vote and then only when decided upon by a panel of 7 in secret meetings not open to public record. If that doesn't send up a red flag I don't know what will.
This may be a Vision, but a vision for whom? These proposals do not have Tulsa or Tulsa County citizen’s best interests in mind. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the projects suggested getting done, but to hand a blank check over to Tulsa County with very little to no oversight is not the way to do it.
If you are a conservative you cannot support these proposals as they encourage and condone crony capitalism, corporatism, and the government picking winners and losers. If you are a democrat you cannot support these proposals simply because they encourage and condone taking from the 99% to give to the 1%.
Vision2 is too rushed, too much, too sloppy, and too soon. Vote NO on Vision2, Prop 1 & 2. www.facebook.com/StopVision2
Re: Views on Vision2
Re: Views on Vision2
Sorry to ramble.
Re: Views on Vision2
Re: Views on Vision2
Re: Views on Vision2
I was skeptical at first, but after studying it out and not just listening to all the naysayers that opposed the BOK Center, it is clear that is wise investment.
If AA does leave, we must have facilities that will attract other high paying jobs. If not, we could easily lose over 11,000 jobs. Does anyone realize what that would do to our city.
Vision2025 is proof that these packages work. Quit listening to all the sound bites and study the thing out.
Vote YES on County Props 1 and 2.
Re: Views on Vision2
Re: Views on Vision2
Re: Views on Vision2
Now we have Don Walker, vice-chair for the pro-Vision2 folks, saying things like - "Were it not for the potential of job loss, I would never recommend that we borrow this money to renovate and repair the facilities, but we have to do it now," Sure sounds like a bailout to me. Even using the same type of emotional blackmail used to pass the bailouts on the federal level. Vision2 is too rushed. We don't know enough about these proposals to allow them to pass. Vote NO. www.Facebook.com/StopVision2
Re: Views on Vision2
Re: Views on Vision2
Re: Views on Vision2