Crossing Party Lines

Who says we all can't get along? Representatives from both sides of the party lines sat down recently for a barbecue lunch and a little debate about the candidates and issues Tulsa County voters will be facing this Tues., Nov. 7, at the polls.

Elaine Dodd is the former Tulsa County Democratic Party Chairwoman, having served twice in that capacity, and most recently served on the Democratic National Committee Platform Committee for 2004 in Boston, MA.

Michael Bates, besides being a regular columnist for Urban Tulsa Weekly, is also the State Committee Man for the Tulsa County Republican Party and is maintains an online blog, Batesline.com.

Both individuals are passionate about politics and were excited to discuss some of what they feel will be the closest and most exciting races to vote in and watch on Tuesday. Both also feel that the level of voter turnout in Tulsa County is unfortunately low, especially among younger voters and registered Independents.

Hence, this little debate. We hope it stirs your consciousness and provokes you to get out to the polls on Tuesday.

The text below is a word-for-word transcription of the debate between Dodd and Bates. It has been edited only for length, grammar and relevance.

Enjoy, and don't forget to vote!

The Governor's Race: Brad Henry (D) vs. Ernest Istook (R)

Bates: We simply need a change in the Governor's mansion. Brad Henry's approach has been to try to bring prosperity to the state using casino gambling and a tobacco tax deal. He's locked into a situation where we've got rising oil prices, and that has helped the state economy, far more, really, than any action he's taken.

About the best you can stay is that he stayed out of the way of some Republican initiatives on worker's compensation and tax cuts and allowed those to go through. In terms of providing good leadership for this state, I haven't seen that out of Brad Henry.

Ernest Istook has got the experience from his years in Congress. He's seen what other states are doing in the way of economic development, he's demonstrated a lot of leadership during his years in Congress, and he's going to be able to bring Oklahoma back. There's going to be some energy, I think, that you haven't seen in the Henry administration, from Istook.

Dodd: I think sometimes when a person is not a bombastic and shrill speaker that people take them not to be a leader. I think Brad is a quiet kind of leader. I don't think he's someone who seeks every press conference or public opportunity to do what's right for the state.

Just this morning, $17 million more were put into education in the state because of the lottery. While we may not always agree with the vehicles that raise money, and certainly people who have addictions to gambling shouldn't be in casinos, the fact is that this initiative, which is not only supported by Governor Henry but a majority of people in this state, is $86 million for education.

Oklahoma is well-recognized now in the United States for having a preeminent early childhood education program. That's significant when you talk about North Carolina and other states that have had all these fabulous early childhood education initiatives. And yet, it is still a voluntary program, as it should be.

We are now recognized as providing the most opportunities for the youngest children, with parental permission and support, to be involved in education. I can't think of anything better for our future than that. Parents get to decide whether they want their children involved in these programs or not.

The reality is that lots of children are coming to school every day not having had early childhood education programs because they didn't come from homes where parents could afford for them to go to pre-school or childcare, Mother's Day Out or Parent's Day Out programs, and they are significantly behind.

Children today live in a very different world than Michael and I did when we were children, and the amount of information they are expected to take in and digest and do something with is phenomenal. We really don't have the same capacities that children now do. So I'm very proud of Governor Henry. I think his wife, Kim, has been a significant influence on him in education because she was a public school teacher at the high school level.

Michael is correct; any governor is lucky in terms of the oil and gas prices, and that's not a Democrat or Republican thing. But I think he's been a studious, quiet, thoughtful, moderate Democrat.

And, by the way, all the polling information, and I've just looked at some more this morning, shows there is not only large support for Governor Henry from the Democratic Party, there is significant amount of support for Governor Henry from the Republicans.

Bates: Well, sure his handlers have done a great job of keeping him out of the spotlight. They didn't do such a good job early on, and he embarrassed himself a few times. He's spending a lot of time out of state, going into the office when the sun gets warm. He's just not provided the kind of leadership we need to move our state to the next level.

While it's good to have funding going into education, to tax the least mathematically astute people in our state through a lottery by convincing them they can get something for nothing doesn't generate revenue, doesn't grow the pie for state spending. Instead, it simply redistributes it off of the people who can least afford it, who are looking at the lottery as a way of launching themselves rather than with hard work.

Dodd: The lottery is not required. No one is required to participate in the lottery in the state of Oklahoma, to buy a lottery card, to go into a casino or do any of that. And you can't suggest that people don't make bad decisions; they do. And they make them not only by going into casinos and playing the lottery but in all kinds of ways . . .

Bates: Right, but you can't have the state encouraging people to make bad decisions with public advertising campaigns and promotional campaigns and encouraging people to make bad decisions by saying it's for a good cause.

That's where the state gets involved in promoting gambling; that's where things cross the line. And to make that the cornerstone, the pivot point of his legislative program, shows the kind of leadership that we got largely by accident, thanks to a split vote in a three-way race and a 7,000 vote margin in 2002. So it's time to fix that mistake, and this is our opportunity to do that.

The Lieutenant Governor's Race: Jari Askins (D) vs. Todd Hiett (R)

Bates: Todd Hiett was the first Republican Speaker of the House since the 1920s. In our state form of government, the Speaker of the House has a huge role, not only with his immediate duties as leader of the state House but also with court appointments and other aspects where he has direct impact on state government.

And he's done, I think, a tremendous job with the two years he's had as Speaker of the House. We've had some reforms in the area of worker's compensation, we've had some returning of people's money to them when we had a surplus.

We've, for the first time in 25 years, increased our state roads budget, and we did it without raising taxes, thanks to not only Todd Hiett's but also to Mark Liotta's leadership in the state House. They reprioritized state spending and focused on the critical need of fixing our roads and bridges.

Dodd: Well, from a Democratic perspective, we don't view taxes as the ugly, evil villain that our Republican friends sometimes do. We view taxes as the rent you pay for participating and living in your community. And while we understand that people have limited personal incomes from which they can often pay taxes, we also don't think these $40 refunds are of any real significance to people.

Jari's background is very interesting. She was a judge and served in the House, and, had the legislature been a majority Democrat, she would have been the first woman Speaker of the House, and I think that says a lot about her.

Overall, Oklahoma is still not an easy state for women, not only to be elected, but also to rise to positions of leadership, particularly in what is often portrayed in a good 'ol boy network. Jari is well-traveled in the state, especially now because of her campaign. I pulled the most recent polling I could find, which was Oct. 9, a News Nine TV poll, and it had Jari at 48 percent and Todd at 41.3 percent of the vote. That's only 89 percent of the vote, so there may be some undecideds out there in that race.

Bates: I would imagine that support for both is pretty soft, at least among party regulars, straight party voters. I think you could have a lot of movement just in that last week. There's going to be a barrage of TV ads.

Dodd: One interesting thing about the Lt. Gov's office, there are really no defined duties, other than presiding in the case of a tie in the state Senate, which obviously can be very important, as the Senate is still controlled by Democrats, but it is more closely held by Republicans than ever before. That may become very important whether you have a Republican or Democrat Lt. Governor.

Bates: And it very well could decide the results of a very close race.

Dodd: Another interesting thing about this race is that we presume this will be Governor Henry's last term if he is re-elected, because he can't run again for Governor. Therefore, it may determine, depending on whether Speaker Hiett wins or Rep. Askins wins, who you may be looking at as candidate for governor.

House District 23: Steve Gallo (D) vs. Sue Tibbs (R)

Bates: Sue Tibbs has done a great job as a representative for East Tulsa. It's her home district, she knows the district well, and one of the things I've appreciated about her service is her focus on voter fraud issues.

Although we have a very solid system of counting votes once they're cast, what we don't have is a good way to make sure that people who show up at the polls are people who are legitimately registered and eligible to vote. And it's something that she's been concerned about and continued to try to raise awareness about.

The quality of our election results depends on the sanctity of the process, to see it through every step; not simply how the ballots are counted, as critical as that is, but to also make sure that those who vote are people who live in the district and who are entitled to vote.

But beyond that, she's somebody who is right in line with the values of the district on social issues, economic development issues. And, as a senior citizen, she brings an important perspective to our state legislature.

Dodd: This is a very interesting House seat by registration numbers. It's not overwhelmingly Republican; it's not overwhelmingly Democrat. It's always probably going to be a very competitive seat.

It's always going to be one seat that the Democrats would love to bring back into their palm. Steve Gallo is a veteran, a Marine, and we're losing, by term limits and others deciding not to run, a real veteran's voice in our legislature. A lot of young people who are running for office have not served in the military and will not bring that experience to the political arena.

Steve is a public school educator by profession and works and has worked with some of the city's most troubled children. He has been on the staff of Street School, which is an alternative school in the Tulsa Public School system, and he's currently working at the Laura Dester Shelter, which is part of our school district as well.

In his spare time, if you can imagine, he goes to law school. He's a child of this district and has matured in the district.

I was displeased with Rep. Tibbs when she suggested that, perhaps, he was too young. I don't think anyone should ever be disenfranchised from the process of running for office. Once you are eligible to vote, you should then, other than meeting the constitutional requirements, be able to participate in the process.

House District 78: Jeannie McDaniel (D) vs. Jesse Guardiola (R)

Bates: Jesse Guardiola is a Tulsa Police Officer who was injured in the line of duty and is now in the public affairs division of TPD.

Jeannie McDaniel has demonstrated a couple of ways she is out of step with the values of Oklahoma and with the values of this district. She was a co-sponsor of the bill that would have gutted the historic preservation provisions of our local zoning code and made it very easy for people to the edges of property numbers opt out and very effectively undo all of the hard work that neighborhoods like Yorktown, Swan Lake and North Maple Ridge did to get that protection for their investment and their properties.

On the landmark pro-life legislation that passed this year, I think with well over 85 votes in the House, with only five people voting against it and Governor Henry signing it, calling it a reasonable compromise on the issue, Jeannie McDaniel was one of those five people who voted against legislation that would have helped women seeking abortion be more aware of their options and the reality of the situation, so that they can make an informed decision instead of having regrets later.

Again, the way that Jeannie McDaniel demonstrated that she is really not in step with this district, which, for many years, was represented by an emphatically pro-life democrat, Mary Easley.

Dodd: Jeannie is not someone whom Democrats or Republicans should take lightly because how she will vote on something is not traditional by her party affiliation. She is one of the most studied legislators that I am personally acquainted with, in terms of actually reading bills instead of having a colleague inform her of what is in the bill.

Bates: That's funny to hear because when she talked about House Bill 2559, it was as if she was asked to sign on to the bill and gladly agreed to do it because it's just the sort of thing you do, but she professed that she didn't really understand the details of the bill when she agreed to co-sponsor it.

Dodd: Well, if in case that happened, and I'm not doubting your word, but that would be a rare occasion, because I know her to call people in Tulsa, in her district, and chat with them about, 'I've got this legislation pending or this amendment is going to be added, what do you think.'

On the pro-life issue, Michael and I will never agree on that issue, but I think that Jeannie would just say that those are not issues that people talk about when she goes door-to-door.

When Jeannie goes door-to-door, people are talking about security, not feeling safe in their homes; they are talking about affordable healthcare that they don't have or are struggling to keep; they are talking about retirement issues, some of which have to do with the state.

In that district, there are disproportionately large numbers of teachers, both active and retired, so education issues are of great concern to her, and I think would have been even without this disproportionate number of teachers.

I think Jeannie had to learn, as I'm sure any of us would have to learn, that the legislative process is not really pretty when it's being made; It has not been easy, and it has particularly not been easy this past term, to be a Democrat in a legislature that has been run by Todd Hiett, who is not only authoritarian, but oftentimes would not meet with Democrats, would not even allow groups like the Oklahoma Education Association to come in and visit with him in his office.

So it's not an easy environment for her to have learned. Yes, she participated in the democratic caucus, but when it's the Speaker who is controlling what bills come out, what bills never see the light of day and so forth, you have to have some back and forth. And she said it was very difficult, and it was oftentimes very demeaning, very depressing and very sad because in the end, we're the ones who are affected by that.

Bates: I would tell you that, if you were to predict the outcome of the race today, it would be in a dead heat just by looking at the yard signs. It is really about turnout. Again, I don't think it's necessarily about political party, per say, in this race but about voter turnout. Both candidates are out working this campaign really hard. These are two people who both really want to represent their constituents.

House District 77: Eric Proctor (D) vs. Mark Liotta (R)

Bates: Mark Liotta's represented by one of the most Democratic districts in Tulsa, which mostly includes the Northeast part of Tulsa. Over a couple of elections, marking the confidence of the voters in that district, he won election, and this will be his last time to run. If he's re-elected, he'll term out in two years.

In his time in office, he's demonstrated a great amount of leadership, particularly in public infrastructure issues. We've been stuck for the last 25 years with flat spending on state roads, and we were told the only way we could get more money to spend on our roads and bridges, replacing some that are half a century or more old, would be to raise the gas tax, and there was an attempt to do that which failed by an incredible margin.

Mark Liotta found a way to re-prioritize the budget and actually doubled spending on roads and bridges, to begin to repair and to catch up on decades of neglect. It's a great tribute to his energy and leadership and to the Republican caucus. I don't think you would have seen that happen with Democrats in control of the state House.

Dodd: Eric Proctor is a young teacher who is seeking public office for the first time. The seat has long been considered a Democrat stronghold, and Eric believes this is a good opportunity to reclaim it. He knows a lot about the district, and he's a real advocate of the schools in that particular district, which he believes are not receiving their fair stake, in that those schools tends to be on low-performing lists by the state or don't have the quality of teachers other schools enjoy.

He talks very articulately about the individual schools in that particular district and their needs. He's kind of an unassuming young man, and I've never seen him be anything but positive.

It will not be an easy race for Eric even if the registration favors him because he's running against an incumbent, and you just don't lose incumbents intentionally, I don't think. What's interesting about Eric is he's been running this race for a number of years. He decided to run and started preparing himself, gathering campaign funds, gathering people, going to events so he could further educate himself about the district and so forth.

Should Liotta prevail as the incumbent, Michael just told you he's terming out, I think we have a pretty good idea of who the Democrat candidate for that seat will be.

County Commissioner's Race: Wilbert Collins (D) vs. John Smaligo (R)

Bates: County government in Oklahoma was set up to do some very basic things, to maintain roads and bridges in rural areas, to handle law enforcement in rural areas and then to do sort of bookkeeping work, to collect property taxes, and that's really about it.

The last several years under Wilbert Collins' service, we've seen county government gain over half a billion dollars in tax revenue and the possibility of trying to gain another half a billion to fund 40 acres worth of islands in the middle of the Arkansas River.

So far, I haven't heard Wilbert Collins say where he stands on that issue. But I have heard John Smaligo make it very clear that he believes that county government ought to be about the basics, not about frills, not about raising sales taxes to build new golf cart barns in LaFortune Park, but about dealing with roads and bridges and flood protection.

The first Four to Fix the County project that was passed in 2000, pertaining an existing tax to handle some long-neglected, long-deferred upgrades at the fairgrounds, was successful and wonderful, but the county has gone beyond that now, really to the point of empire building.

Instead of yielding place to the municipal governments, which actually have to handle police protection and fire protection and infrastructure for the vast majority of Tulsa County residents, they're collecting more and more revenue and with it more and more clout and taking it out of the reach of our municipal governments. There's a collision coming, and it may already be here.

We really need county commissioners, like Fred Perry who's already been elected in District 3, like John Smaligo, who will bring the county government back to basics and reign it in.

Dodd: And I would submit to you first that Wilbert Collins is never able to act alone. He is only part of a three-person county commission, so when Michael talks about 'Wilbert does this and Wilbert does that--'

Bates: Well, I've never seen him put up any resistance to anything the other two county commissioners want to do--

Dodd: But what I would submit is that he is a part of this three-person commission, two of whom are Republicans, so he doesn't act alone.

Wilbert is another veteran. His background is in real estate and business, and he is a long-time member of this community, he raised his family here.

He ran in a very hotly contested primary the first time and was elected. Michael sees it as growing county government, and while I could make a case just for that, I would submit to you that Wilbert has looked for ways to improve the quality of life within the county and to try to find where there are collaboration opportunities for the city and the county, which I don't think ought to be such an outrageous idea.

I think it is interesting that, on the county commission currently, there are two Republicans, Fred Perry and Randi Miller, who will serve with whomever is elected this November. I don't think it's too far a reach to say, do we want all levels of government represented by one party? I don't think so.

I think Wilbert obviously brings some differences in terms of his political party, but I also think he's one of three county commissioners and resides in a part of Tulsa County that is often denied access to the kinds of services that probably we three take for granted.

He's been very involved as a part of Vision 2025 and was big backer of the new Morton Healthcare Center. He also, I think, is very concerned about people who live in places outside of Tulsa city but are still very much a part of Tulsa County. I think we forget that county commissioners have to think outside of the box of Tulsa city and think into Collinsville, the Owasso and Sperry. And I've seen him in those communities at work and talking to those constituents.

On a side note, I don't think people really know what a county commissioner does. Have you ever asked someone who their county commissioner is or what district they're in? They're clueless. This is supposedly a local level, and people can't even relate to it.

Bates: The County hasn't been as forthcoming and public as the city has been. They're coming along, but they're still far behind what the city is.

John Smaligo is a State Representative and has represented the North Tulsa County and incorporated areas in the state House and can certainly bring that perspective to county government.

Corporation Commissioner's Race: Cody Graves (D) vs. Bob Anthony (R)

Bates: Bob Anthony has been a true profile of courage. He came into the corporation commission when there was a culture of corruption. Corporate lobbyists, lobbyists for the utility companies, would provide 'walking around' money, and they'd collect cash campaign contributions, which were structured to make it look like they were all $200 or less, but bundled and they didn't make it clear to the commissioner where the money was coming from.

When someone approached Bob Anthony after his first election, he went to the FBI. The FBI conducted an investigation and one corporation commissioner went to jail a lobbyist went to jail, another corporation commissioner probably should have gone to jail but didn't.

Anthony has continued to provide honest, fair service, looking after the interest of rate payers in Oklahoma and as well as, in the area of oil and gas regulation, treating small businesses on the same level as the big companies who can generate the big campaign contributions. You don't often see that kind of integrity on government.

He's up against a corporation commissioner who quit because he found out he wasn't eligible to get a pay raise in the middle of his term, according to state constitution. He got fed up and left. So we've got a choice between someone who risked his career by uncovering corruption in the corporation commission versus somebody who apparently thinks money is the most important motivation for public service.

Dodd: Well, Cody Graves didn't quit because he wasn't going to be eligible for a pay raise. He quit because he did not see a way for him to support his family on the salary that was going to continue to be in play, and frankly had some other private sector offers that were very attractive. I think the fact that he's been endorsed by both Democrat and Republican former corporation commissioners says it all. I mean, those people have no axe to grind; why wouldn't they want the very best for the corporation commission.

Bates: They were in office at a time when that corruption culture prevailed, when you had the kind of influence from the major utilities.

Dodd: But it doesn't make any of them corrupt.

Bates: No, not necessarily, but they had a very cozy situation and Bob Anthony came in and disrupted that.

Dodd: Well, frankly, people have said to Cody, 'Why even bother? You got kind of frustrated,' and he did--

Bates: And he spent the last seven years lobbying for the very companies he used to regulate.

Dodd: And lobbying for the kinds of reforms that he thinks needed to take place. I think it was through his lobbying efforts that he finally decided the only way he could affect change was to run for this office again.

You want to talk about peoples' eyes glazing over, just mention the corporation commission.

Bates: And yet it has so much influence. Just think about the ability to call toll free from Coweta into Sand Springs or Owasso. That wasn't possible until Bob Anthony in 1991 pushed for a 35-mile zone around Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Lawton, Enid, the biggest toll-free calling areas in the country.

He had some lobbying opposition because some phone companies wanted that toll revenue and were going to miss it, but he looked after the interest of the consumer. That happened because of Bob Anthony's leadership.

Dodd: The Corporation Commission has got to be one of the most thankless jobs one can hold because, while you are responsible for setting the rates of many of the regulatory issues, nobody's ever happy. The company isn't happy with you, the ratepayer, who happens to be the voter, isn't happy with you. It's really a thankless job.

But I think you have two very experienced people to choose from. They have both done the job, they both see things that they want to change, but I just don't think people know Corporation Commissioners' names.

For more information on these and other races, check out the League of Women Voters' Voters Guide for the November 2006 Election (www.lwvtulsa.org).

They did a great job of compiling questionnaires sent to the candidates in all of Tuesday's elections. You'll also find information regarding the state questions to be found on the ballot. Be informed and vote.